When you’re good at something, people can get value from you. It is the business building mindset, however, that brings that ability into fruition as it allows you to extend your services to the people who need it. This is what Josh Clay, a performance and movement specialist based in Santa Monica, California, discusses in his conversation with host, Brendan Meyers. As a fitness expert, Josh is very well aware of the value he can give through the services he offers, but he is also painfully aware that he will be doing people a disservice if he doesn’t scale his business to include as many clients as possible. Join in as they trade their insights on growing a business, building relationships, and more in this episode.
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The Business Building Mindset With Josh Clay
I’m here with Josh Clay. What’s going on?
How are you doing?
First of all, you used to tell me all of your certifications. There are many letters, dots, and stuff. I’m mind fucked.
It’s Bachelor’s in Exercise Science, Concentration in Strength and Conditioning, Minor in Psychology. FRC, Functional Range Conditioning, precision nutrition. Obviously, more nutrition. ACSM, personal trainer, and then CSCS, Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist.
You’re a badass and you know everything.
It’s a lot of abbreviation.
Do you know what I am? I’m Brendan Meyers, IG, FB, YT, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. Josh is somebody that I met. Where did we meet?
In Equinox. You would walk in there and do your back squat to 10-foot, 12-foot hurdle jumps across the gym.
It was bound to happen. We just met. We were like, “Let’s talk to each other because we’re both doing badass shit.” Now you’re thinking about moving to Denver.
I’m living in Santa Monica. I moved back after traveling abroad. I’m looking to move to Denver. I needed to be closer to the mountains.
We’re opening up our gym. We have a lot of cool things happening here in Denver. I reached out to Josh and I was like, “I love your shit. I’m always watching it. You know your stuff. I want you to be a part of Body Evolution.” That was one of our memberships on CreateU. He was like, “Yes, let’s do it.” We filmed 450 to 600 videos.If you’re good at something that can genuinely help people, you’re doing them a disservice by not giving them access to that service. Click To Tweet
We filmed 600 regular exercises and 30 kettlebell tutorials in 36 hours.
He’s about to go to the airport in an hour.
You bought my plane tickets Wednesday night and I flew out Friday morning. You were like, “When is the earliest you could be here?” I was like, “I can be there next week. I can be there in two days.” You go, “Now we’re talking. I just bought your flight.”
Life is so much about going with the flow, see what happens, new opportunities. It’s always coming left and right. Just do it, why the hell not?
The opportunity presents itself. It’s like, “What am I going to do?” My girlfriend was out of town. I plan on working on my own business. I was like, “Let’s go to Denver. Let’s do this.”
Honestly, I believe I can help you with your business and the things that you can do long-term.
You and I have talked before. I love the training side of things. I love coaching people. As far as business goes, it’s something that’s hard for me to grab the reins. It’s something that I see the value in, but it’s not something I enjoy. I love coaching and connecting with people. I love training and learning about that stuff. When it comes to business, you can be the best coach in the world but if you don’t have an ability to create that outreach, if people don’t know you’re a good coach because you lack the business side of things, it’s useless. I heard somebody that said, “If you care about your coaching quality, you’re a loser.” That rustled my Jimmy a little bit.
Being a good coach is the bare minimum. When people come to you for a service, you’re expected to be a good coach. Unfortunately, within the fitness industry, that’s not always the case. It’s lacking a lot and it’s something that you could choose to focus on. You’d be like, “I’m going to level up the industry.” For me, that was something that hit home. I care about my quality coaching, but you’re right. When people come to me, they expect to receive a level of service. If I don’t have the ability to create a business and the way I look at it is if I don’t focus on growing my business, I am doing people a disservice because then I am only helping the people who come to me organically. If I can build my business and create more outreach, then I genuinely believe I can help more people. I’m doing a disservice by not doing the things I don’t like doing.
It’s like people on social media who are like, “You’re taking money from people.” No, I would be doing a disservice to people if I’m this good of a coach and a businessman and I don’t help people in the way that I can. It’s in any area like dancing or anything. You’re not helping anybody if you’re not utilizing your education.
When you know you are good at something and you can genuinely help people, you are doing a disservice to the people around you and the people in the world by not giving them access to that service. I have, “It’s not about you,” tattooed on my arm. For me, it’s not about you. It’s about serving the universe. What do I need to do to make sure that I show up for the people around me? If you are good at something and it can help improve the quality of people’s life, you’re doing a disservice by not making sure you reach the maximum amount of people.
Where do you struggle most with business? Maybe I can give you a couple of tips and people can take them.
For me, building my business, it happens very organically. I’m very good at getting referrals. For me, it’s how do I increase my outreach? How do I reach more people?
How many followers do you have?
If you had 100 of them sign up for your coaching monthly, would you be super successful?
I’d be pumped.
The problem a lot of people have is they try and look at the outreach, “How do I get more?” Every single person is already in front of you. Let’s say 1,000 of them are already qualified people, then they’re the ones that are coaches. It’s probably more like 400 or 500 of them. You still have many people that are waiting for you to step up to the plate. What about you reach out to each person? What if you get them on a call? What if you explain to them on the call not about your coaching, but about their life and what they’re missing out on to live an optimal life?
Where we go wrong a lot in business is we think we need to put everything up front. We need to explain everything here and now. The truth of marketing, the truth of psychology is everything is deeper. If we come up with an approach of a superficial offer or something like, “It’s $150 to join with me.” You say it straight up. How do you think people react? “No, I’m good,” because you didn’t hit any pain points. You didn’t hit into their future. What their relationship is with food. You have to buy them in. Especially with advertising, for instance. For Body Evolution, one of our memberships. Another one of our memberships is ScupltU.
One of the things that have come across long-term with a lot of success is, let’s give them examples of other people and what they’ve done. Let’s zone in on who comments, who likes, how they’re reacting, and go into that data. Once you go into that data, you know what they’re looking at. Why would someone engage with one post, but not with the other? Why am I still intrigued with your kettlebell and not so much with some of your other stuff? Because I am interested in kettlebells. I think it’s fascinating and awesome. Come get me in the atmosphere and you’ll win me over as a client. You’ll win me over as a person that wants to invest.
For example, something I was planning on doing is on my whiteboard. It was who are the people that I service and analyzing what are their problems? What are the problems they face in health and fitness? What do they want out of health and fitness? Talking to those pain points just like you were talking about. It’s thinking about, what are the problems they face? What’s keeping them from reaching their goals and then figuring out, how can I as a coach help you bypass these obstacles to reach those health and fitness goals?
What everyone’s approach is, “I’m a coach. As a coach, how can I help you?” For me, “As a friend, how can I help you?” Because they already know that I’m a coach, they end up asking me for their help. It’s an approach that most people don’t take. I walk into a donut shop. I become friends with the owner of the donut shop. I have an event and I’m like, “Do you want to come to the event?” He’s like, “Yes, I’ll bring donuts.” I don’t need to ask at the end of the day because you’re so connected to them. They want something. Sometimes I even bring it up like this. I get into a conversation with somebody. I develop a relationship. I do care a little bit about the business side. There could be an opportunity. I’m not going to bullshit. I see the opportunity, but I take the approach as, “If I help you, you’re going to immediately want me to help you in a paid form.”
If we can benefit on a business level, why not approach that? I always have those relationships. I developed the relationship, “Let’s hang out. Let’s do this. Let’s do that” and then something always comes from it. You met Ray from Rogue Fitness. He and I are very close friends. We talk about business all the time and we’re going to eventually work together. It’s going to happen because of our relationship. As someone at a tattoo parlor, I went in there and he ended up giving me a free tattoo. It’s because of the relationship. He starts talking to me about the gym and what am I doing with the gym? All of a sudden, maybe we have a bunch of his friends and people coming into the gym. That’s 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 clients for other trainers or whatever it is. It’s the relationship of it.
With my tattoo artist, he was great. He did the same thing. I went and got a tattoo touched up that I got down in Mexico. In 2019, I went to Africa. I raised a ton of money and deliver water filters but I needed him to touch something up. I went to him. He does all my tattoos. We have a good relationship. He was like, “Don’t worry about it. Just donate that money to your fund.” I was like, “You rock. You’re a good man.” I’ve recommended a ton of people to him. He appreciates that and I appreciate him. He’s somebody that we connect with on a spiritual level.
That’s how you make money. To build your coaching, I know you don’t like the business side of it, but it’s not really business.
That’s something that I have to reshape.
At the end of the day, you don’t need to reshape anything. We’re talking and we’re having a conversation. How did we get to where we are right now?
You slid in my DMs.
That’s what happens. You reacted. You’re like, “Let’s chat.” You didn’t text back for a while.
You said you’re going to call me and you didn’t.
That’s the way. That’s all it is. I talked about this as well. When you get too close with people, that’s when shit can hit the fan. That’s when it gets riskier. If you keep your distance, they see your hard work and you see their hard work. You appreciate it and you’re with each other once in a while. You talk once in a while and when you do talk, it strengthens your relationship. It solidifies your relationship, that trust. Trust takes a long time to develop for some people, others not so much. That’s exactly how you get someone to sign on for $150 a month. You talk to them. You’re like, “You don’t need to sign up for my coaching but let me help you.” You almost make it seem like there’s no other way that they would want to go because they trust you so much. I would rather hire somebody as my coach if I trust them.At the end of the day, business is about relationships. Click To Tweet
There’s a guy named Brad Ott. He’s been helping me with my herniation with my back, my hips, and all that stuff. What I like about him is he doesn’t tell you that you need to come back. He says, “Go and take these exercises for three weeks. Send me a message, email, whatever. If I can help you. I think I can. Let me give you some advice if you need any help.” I keep on coming back. Now, I don’t even need to be going back, but I still go back. It’s the fact that I appreciate someone that’s raw and authentic about my result and what I can create. He’s not a doctor that’s like, “I need you back every single week for 25 weeks,” because he knows he’s going to get paid.
You can tell that he cares. He’s in it generally to help you. That’s my thing. When I help people, I want to help people with no expectation of receiving anything else back. I’m helping you because I generally want to help you. When it comes to coaching or anything I can do, I tell people that. It’s like, “I am helping you with no expectation of anything in return. I’m helping you because I generally want to see you have a better life.”
What if you could take that and helping them with zero expectations of them signing up for coaching? Get on a consultation call like, “You don’t need to hire me at all. I’m going to give you a lot of tools on this call. If you feel like you want to work with me, let’s roll. I don’t need your money. I want to help you. I appreciate you.” What’s your vision? How’s your relationship? Ask them questions that nobody asks. That’s how I get the opportunities. I ask them questions that nobody asks, that they’re uncomfortable to even talk about with most people. They then tell me something they haven’t told anybody. I’ve been in many conversations where I’ve been on a podcast where people are crying straight up first time meeting me.
One of the most incredible ways to create opportunities is you ask them about relationships. How’s your relationship at home? Is everything okay? Because it hits the core. How’s your mom and your dad? How’s your relationship with your mom and your dad? They express certain things, and then you could see where are these things that are a little sticky. You could see them. You could hear it in their voice, the raspiness. Maybe they’re moving a lot. Maybe they put their hands in their pockets. They get nervous. You’re like, “What’s going on? Talk to me. Forget the coaching.” That’s where they’re like, “This person is talking to me like I’m a human being. This person believes in me. This person believes in my vision.” When you’re the person that believes in their vision, guess who else believes in their vision? Nobody. Do you want to know why? Because they don’t tell it to anybody. If you’re the one person they believe in you for long-term value, that’s when they hire you as a coach.
I relate that back to something. I was listening to a podcast, it was Greg Glassman, the CEO of CrossFit before all this stuff happened. His main thing with CrossFit was their “why” was to make you better. Train at this CrossFit gym for six months, and six months later I’m going to ask you, are you being a better husband? Are you a better businessman? Relating all the things, all these lessons that you are learning. That was something that resonated with me. What are you taking away from this? My target audience doesn’t come to me. For them, I have an assessment. They come to me because they know they want to train 2 to 4 days a week. They want to train from more of a functional fitness standpoint, strength and conditioning background. If they lose a little fat, it’s awesome. In the end, they’re doing it because they want to be better. My goal is as I coach you, am I making you a better person and a better human being?
Don’t talk about the fat loss. Bring it up at the end. Have a conversation with them and you’ll see dollar signs go up. I’ve learned it. I’ve cracked the code in many different ways with CreateU and different brands that I’m partnered with. We smashed because it’s all relationship-based.
You and I both know Chris Harder. I love something he says always, “When good people make good money, they do great things.” I relate this to a lot of what’s happening now. The problem is the people with all the money are the people with all the screwed-up values, the screwed-up philosophy. They have all this money and they could be helping the world. The reason I want to make money is because I want to live the lifestyle. When I make money, I want to be able to create the organizations and nonprofits. I want to create the change I want to see in the world. I don’t need a ten-bedroom house. At the end of the day, when I’m on my death bed, I want to look back and be like, “Was my presence a positive thing for this world? Did I live for other people instead of myself?” It’s not about you. It’s about serving the universe.
That’s what people miss out on. There are a lot of people that believe, “Brendan’s trying to get more money.” I don’t listen to that noise because my actions speak louder than words every single day. It’s those people that are the ones with insecurities. Those people that are like, “I promise my own life. I don’t trust it.” At the end of the day, in order to help the world, you need money. How do you get more money? How do you get it in a quicker fashion? Sometimes you have to step on some toes. What are you willing to risk to get to a billion people? What are you willing to risk for 500 million people, 100 million people? How do you get there? You have to show up on a whole different level. You have to do some things to be able to make more money. It’s the facts of it. The whole point of business is to make money. What you do with that money is up to the person. For me and you, clearly, it’s changed. I would rather make $20 million instead of $40 million if I can give $20 million out to different people. Why do I need $40 million if $20 million is still going to get me a beautiful house and a McLaren? It’s still going to help me donating to charities. It’s still going to help me invest in people’s visions for businesses.
That is the problem. A lot of people running this country and things have the money, but they’re not doing all the good that they could with it. Money is power. Money can be used for good power. Money doesn’t have to be greed. The way I grew up in North Carolina was, “I don’t need money.” That’s a cop-out. You do need money because money gives you the lifestyle you want to live. If you make good money and you are a good person with good values and you want to do good things, you are a powerful son of a bitch. You can do many good things. I want to make money because I know when I do make that money, I’m going to do the things and I’m going to be the change I want to see in this world. That’s what it’s all. It’s always about sending the other guy. It’s not about just making money. It’s about change.
Your philosophies and things that you know is inspiring to me as a business owner, as someone that studies this stuff and the human body. It’s inspiring. I appreciate you coming on here and sharing. This is some dope shit. This is the type of episode that I like to bring to the world. This is the content that I like. This is what I like to give to people because it’s a whole different story.Money means power, but it doesn’t have to mean greed. Click To Tweet
That’s one thing I want to say to you. I appreciate you bringing me out here. I think a lot of people can be like, “Brendan wants to affect a billion people.” People would shake that off and be like, “Oh my God.” When you say that, that makes people insecure. A lot of times it’s because they’re not helping anyone. If that statement makes you insecure, you have to look within. Why does that make me insecure? That’s not Brendan’s problem. That’s your problem. You can’t control the way people react to that. That statement is a very bold statement.
The fact that you’re younger than me and you are teaching me, I don’t do this whole age like, “I’m older.” Every single person I meet can teach me something and they know something that I don’t. You know a lot more about business. You know a lot more about building relationships. That’s something that can make me a better human. I’m not going to let my ego get in the way of that. I appreciate that. That statement is a very bold statement. You’re doing things that the average twenty-something-year-old is not.
I’m doing things that a 45-year-old do. At the same time, you are as well. I don’t even tell people my age. Generally, people don’t know my age unless you google me. I don’t say it. It’s not needed. I don’t need to tell you anything about me. All you’ve got to know is that I hustle, I’m true to my word, I’m consistent with it, and I’m going to achieve every vision than I ever have. That’s all you’ve got to know about me. That’s all I need to know about you at the end of the day. It’s all relationship. Josh Clay, where can they find you?
On Instagram, it’s @JoshuaLeeClay and on Facebook, Joshua Clay.
Hit him a DM. If you want to get coach by him, he knows his stuff. He’s a part of Body Evolution now. We’re going to be developing that. Hopefully, he comes out here. He’s part of CreateU. I can help him with his business and help me with things that you know like the kettlebells and the different styles of training. I love strength conditioning. I love the different approaches. There’s not a perfect way. Every way is different. That’s a cool thing.
When it comes to training, conditioning, and exercise, there is no right or wrong. There is effective and ineffective. Relate that to your goals. What are your goals and is what you’re doing to get there effective or ineffective?
You could have one exercise. I could have one exercise, but they’re both effective and that’s the way to it. Make sure you’re treating your relationships like you’re treating your training. Stay consistent, be very serious about it, and look at it from a long-term goal perspective. Create these goals and smash them out of the park. Josh, thanks for coming on here. When you move out here, we’ll talk more about training. We’ll talk more about philosophies, programming, all this stuff because I think you provide a lot in that regard. If you want to check out CreateU Nutrition, go to CreateUNutrition.com. We have Greens, Mood, Stress Product, a lot of high-quality products.
I appreciate you having me. This is awesome. It’s fun.
I’ll see you next time.
- Josh Clay
- Chris Harder
@JoshuaLeeClay – Instagram
About Josh Clay
Josh Clay Is a performance and movement specialist based out of Santa Monica, California.